Podcast Episode 17| Real Estate Loans & Lending Options for Physicians

With Jason Watkins

About the Prosperous Doc® Podcast

The Prosperous Doc® podcast by Spaugh Dameron Tenny highlights real-life stories from doctors and dentist to encourage and inspire listeners through discussions of professional successes and failures in addition to personal stories and financial wellness advice.

Shane Tenny, CFP® is our podcast host and Partner at SDT. He has lectured numerous times for hospitals and physician groups and, most importantly, helped hundreds of clients develop strategies to navigate through turbulent times toward their financial goals.

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Jason Watkins:              00:00                It's important to know that if you're getting credit anywhere other than from a mortgage lender, the credit score you see is not using the same credit model that most lenders use.

Intro:                            00:11                From Spaugh Dameron Tenny. It's White Coat Wellness, a show for doctors who are ready to improve their financial wellness. We know you work hard to help your patients, but you can't be at your best if you don't have your own finances in order. In White Coat Wellness, we highlight real life stories from physicians and dentists to educate, encourage and inspire you to personal, professional and financial wellness. Now, from Spaugh Dameron Tenny, please welcome your host, Shane Tenny.

Shane Tenny:                00:40                One of the biggest financial decisions, most exciting and most stressful, that physicians and dentists make involves buying, or building or renovating a house. And for any of you who've gone through this process, you know there are a lot of decisions, a lot of documents, a lot of details to navigate and it can quickly be overwhelming. On top of that, different lenders have different requirements or options, and the decision that you make is going to be one that's going to take up a big spot in your budget for years.

Shane Tenny:                01:13                Now you may know that one of the leading institutions for doctors and dentist lending for years, has been SunTrust Mortgage. And today we're lucky to have as our guest, Jason Watkins. Jason has been a mortgage loan officer for a couple of decades, and has lots of experience, and I know has helped a number of clients through our financial planning group. And we thought it'd be super helpful to you to just bring him right in here to the studio, and ask him some of the questions that may be floating through your mind if you're thinking about making changes to your house, or your mortgage or that sort of thing. And so Jason, thanks so much for being with us today.

Jason Watkins:              01:52                Yeah, thanks for having me.

Shane Tenny:                01:53                Absolutely. So let me ask the big question right out of the gate, which is what the heck is a doctor loan, and how's that different from just a regular old American loan?

Jason Watkins:              02:06                So the doctor loan, what's great about it is that it offers flexible financing, so as little as, no money for a down payment. So for folks coming out of training, who maybe haven't had a chance to save for a down payment yet, you can buy a house with no money down, or even if you have the funds, but would rather invest or pay down some student debt, you can still purchase a home with no money down. Regardless of the down payment, there's no mortgage insurance, which is a huge savings on your monthly payment. And we allow you to qualify using future income. So if you're completing training, and you've got a new position starting within 60 days of that date, you can qualify using your new income to qualify.

Shane Tenny:                02:45                Oh, wow. And so that's different from, say someone who's just an engineer, or a lawyer or some other occupation, coming to get a loan, you might not have the same flexibility.

Jason Watkins:              02:57                Yeah, absolutely. So just to compare, so a physician wanting to buy a home for $500,000, versus me wanting to buy a home for $500,000, I'm going to need a minimum 5% down payment. If I do that, I'll pay mortgage insurance, I've got to use current income to qualify, and I've got to count my student loan debt. Whereas a physician, as little as no money down, no mortgage insurance, use future income, and flexibility qualifying with their student loan payments.

Shane Tenny:                03:25                So in a lot of cases it sounds like it's a no brainer if you've got a DDS or an MD or a DO, to look for a lending institution that offers some sort of doctor loan program.

Jason Watkins:              03:37                Yeah, and what I tell folks is, for a physician or a dentist who qualifies for the program, whether it's a purchase or refinance, whether it's your first home, second home, third time buying a house, if you can qualify for the physician loan, the interest rates, the flexibility and underwriting, it's going to be the best product for you. Whether you think you need it or not.

Shane Tenny:                03:59                Yeah. Let me pick up on something you brought up that I know there's a lot of confusion about, and that is mortgage insurance, because you said with a doctor loan there is not any mortgage insurance. What is mortgage insurance? Can you explain that to the folks listening?

Jason Watkins:              04:12                So mortgage insurance is, basically, it's insurance. If you're going to put down a typically less than 20% when you buy a house, you're subject to paying something called mortgage insurance. Mortgage insurance basically protects the lender in the event you decided to stop making your mortgage payments. It can be pretty costly. On a $400,000 house, with 10% down, you'd probably have mortgage insurance in the neighborhood of 200 to $250 a month. Whereas on a physician loan, it just truly doesn't exist. It's not built into the rate. It's not hidden anywhere. It just truly is not required.

Shane Tenny:                04:46                Again, a real advantage, to the point that you're making. And to be clear, obviously you're with SunTrust, who's been one of the real leaders in the doctor loan space. You're not the only provider. There are different banks and mortgage firms that, at least, intermittently will offer loan products that are competitive in that space.

Jason Watkins:              05:02                Yeah, that's right.

Shane Tenny:                05:04                Let me ask you another question that we sometimes hear from clients, and folks that are looking at mortgages are thinking about it, and that is, help us understand, why do mortgage rates fluctuate from day to day or hour to hour, minute to minute, or even bank to bank? I had somebody ask me a couple of months ago, he says, "They said, 'Well, call me tomorrow. Rates will change.' Is that really just a scam to make me call them tomorrow?" Educate us a little bit. How do rates work in the mortgage world?

Jason Watkins:              05:33                So rates are very complicated, but to give you the easiest answer, and the best answer is, banks are competitors against one another. And I always look at it, it's like buying a stock. So what's the stock price today? That can certainly change tomorrow, depending on what's going on in the market. For the most part, any lender that offers a similar product, our rates are pretty comparable to one another. There's going to be days where one lenders may be priced a little ahead of another, and on any other day that lender might be slightly behind the other. But for the most part, rates are going to vary every day, just like you're buying a stock. And the bank's trying to offer you that stock at the best price they can.

Shane Tenny:                06:11                And when you hear on the news about the government, or the Federal Reserve lowering rates, then everybody thinks, oh, great rates are dropping. That doesn't apply to mortgage rates though, does it?

Jason Watkins:              06:23                Yeah, I get that question quite a bit. So every time there's a cut to the rate, I'll get emails that say, "Hey, Jason, heard rates were cut by a quarter percent today." So when they make that cut, that affects prime rate, so your home equity line, your credit cards. It can indirectly impact mortgage rates positively, but it doesn't always have that effect. It depends on so many variables that are going on, that the short answer is no, that does not mean mortgage rates dropped, but it could be a good indicator that pricing might improve in the next few days.

Shane Tenny:                06:51                Yeah, the Fed, and I'll just add the financial planner perspective on this a little bit, so that the Fed lowering rates, they're lowering, you said the prime rate, they're lowering short term interest rates, like credit card rates and things just like you mentioned. Whereas, obviously we all know mortgage rates are long-term rates, 30 year loans, 15 year loans, 20 year loans, things like that. So there's not a direct correlation. So if you happen to be listening to this podcast on a day that the Fed just lowered rates, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to go out and refire right now.

Jason Watkins:              07:21                Right.

Shane Tenny:                07:22                And another question that I'm sure you get a lot, we hear from time to time is, what's a jumbo loan? How's that different from non-jumbo loan, or conventional loan or things like that?

Jason Watkins:              07:35                Yes. So Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which a lot of people have heard of them, a lot of people haven't. Those are loans that banks sell mortgages to. Every year, Fannie and Freddie can set what they consider conforming loan limits, which means loans they'll purchase from a lender. Currently, at the time of this broadcast, the conforming loan limit is $484,350 so a jumbo loan, real simply, is any loan amount that exceeds that. The doctor loan is a little isolated from that, because the doctor loan is a unique product. It's a bank product. So we aren't really necessarily following what Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would want us to do. We get to design the program, design how you qualify for it, have a little more control over the pricing of the program. So for us, a jumbo loan is still 484 or 351 or higher, but for the physician loan, we're going to give you a doctor loan regardless of what the loan amount is.

Shane Tenny:                08:31                And when you say the doctor loan is a bank loan, does that mean that, at least in your case, that SunTrust continues to own that loan and keep it and service it, as opposed to reselling it to a third party like Fannie or Freddie?

Jason Watkins:              08:44                So any loan can be sold on the secondary market. The frequency of that happening is pretty low. But when you get a mortgage with SunTrust, with Jason, you're going to continue to make your payments to SunTrust, and if you have questions about your mortgage down the road, you'd still call Jason or SunTrust.

Shane Tenny:                08:58                Gotcha. Okay. Very helpful. Now, let me piggyback on something you said at the outset, in just describing the loan, which is oftentimes, or I guess at least with SunTrust, one of the benefits of the doctor loan is that even if you don't have income yet, or I think I heard you say this, that you can still qualify. Which I guess seems a little nicer, a little counterintuitive, because I know from years of applying for mortgages, you guys want truckloads of information, not the least of which is pay stubs. And so I'm thinking, yeah, a lot of folks coming out of fellowship or training or residency, I don't have a pay stub, or I certainly don't have an attractive pay stub. That's not a problem in this case?

Jason Watkins:              09:42                So again, the great thing about the doctor loan is the flexibility in underwriting, and part of that, related to income, is we will use future income to qualify you. But that future income does have to start within 60 days. And that is very helpful for somebody coming out of training, out of residency or fellowship. They're going to complete training on June 30th, and maybe they have a new contract to start a position September 1st with whoever employer they've agreed to work with. They can close on a new home up to 60 days prior to that start date, so that gives them time, post-training, to move into their home, get settled, qualify for that new home, using their new income to do it, and then have a couple of months between training before they start back to work.

Shane Tenny:                10:27                That's a pretty important detail I just want to highlight, because if I heard you correctly, you need to close within 60 days. That doesn't mean you can't start shopping for a house or applying for the loan back in March or April or May. Is that right?

Jason Watkins:              10:41                That's exactly right. And March, April, May, that's really when the home buying season, as we refer to it as, picks up. I think most folks know that's when they see a lot of homes going on the market. So it's okay to go ahead and start looking as early as March, April, May, depending on what income you need to qualify. If we need that new income, then we're going to do a preapproval for you with the assumption that your closing date will be within 60 days of you starting to earn that income.

Shane Tenny:                11:06                Speaking of income, what about side income? You're familiar with physician income statements and things. Sometimes you have W2 income from a hospital or a practice or a group, but then there can be significant moonlighting, or side work, or income from owning a building or something like that. Can that count? Can that be included?

Jason Watkins:              11:30                It absolutely can be included, for sure. It depends on the history of that income. Your ownership in whatever business is generating that income. But absolutely, that's very common for folks to have maybe a W2 income through one position, but then they have tax returns that show three or four other sources of significant income, and absolutely, we're very, very flexible with underwriting. More so than others, I believe. So if there's a way to use income that you're receiving, well we'll find it.

Shane Tenny:                12:01                What about, I'll throw you a curve ball on this one, what about gift income? A family member, grandma, whoever either gives you money to help you move or help you pay, "Oh here's some money to put down on your house or whatever." Is that okay?

Jason Watkins:              12:14                So we do allow gifts, absolutely. And that's a good feature of the program as well. So if you're going to get a gift from anyone to help with your down payment, your closing costs, moving expenses, as long as it's from an eligible family member, you can use that gift, even to satisfy your asset requirement. And what I mean by that is, when you close on a house, we just like to know that somewhere, somehow you've got enough money in the bank to pay that mortgage if you needed to for maybe two to five months, depending on where you are in your profession. For folks coming out of residency, they may not have that yet. If their parents are going to give them a gift, that gift can be used to satisfy that, which is really a huge help.

Shane Tenny:                12:54                I see what you're saying, which is, you're clarifying the assumption I made, which is the gift may not be... It may not be best used by using it as a down payment, for example. Maybe best you just put it in your checking account, so that we can keep, in your case, SunTrust happy, that I've got enough stability to pay the bills, even if the paychecks are running a little late or something like that.

Jason Watkins:              13:14                Yeah, absolutely. Better to have a couple thousand dollars in the savings account versus a couple thousand dollar down payment.

Shane Tenny:                13:19                Absolutely, well now you sound like you're good financial planner. Keep a little money in the bank. Tip number one. I've got a couple more questions for you right after this break.

Will Koster:                   13:30                I'm Will Koster, on this episode's White Coat Wisdom. I want to talk about financial habits. It helps to put in context that a habit is a regular tendency or practice, especially one that is hard to give up. Here are a few thoughts about financial habits and how to make them work for your success. How we view money is often learned as a child from our family or surroundings growing up. Such behaviors can be conscious, or subconscious, which can make them especially hard to give up some times.

Will Koster:                   13:58                I myself have a quirky habit finding myself ordering a water at a restaurant, rather than paying for a beverage regardless of my feelings at the moment. It's a habit, albeit a small one, but it's one that I learned from my parents ranting about how restaurants overcharged for drinks and that we have juice or soda at home. Never mind the fact that sometimes I like a refreshing beverage over simply drinking a water. Anyone else out there and do that?

Will Koster:                   14:20                Well, what if your habit is something a little less tangible, but more detrimental to your financial well-being? What if your habit, like a lot of us, is keeping up with the Joneses. If you see your coworker, or neighbor with a new gadget, you feel like you need one too, or a new car or a big diamond engagement ring. If you have the subconscious tendency, or habit, to keeping up with the Joneses, you may disregard your own goals or financial situation and make decisions that can jeopardize your future.

Will Koster:                   14:47                Here's one that might be less of a habit, but simply how the way things always been done, having separate bank accounts as a married couple simply because there's a resistance to changing the current way of doing things. Both spouses brought separate checking or savings accounts into the marriage. As we've mentioned before, during this segment in past episodes, having disjointed cash accounts can be inefficient, and a barrier to feeling in control of your finances. Whether your habits are being too generous and giving to every charitable cause you hear about, or impulsively shopping online. One is not right or wrong. The takeaway from this segment is being mindful in your financial life. It will likely lead to more sound decision making, and an overall satisfaction around your finances. With this episode's White Coat Wisdom, I'm Will Koster.

Shane Tenny:                15:36                All right. So, Jason, we've talked about a number of different lending scenarios, the doctor loan program, and in particular, I think the persona that we've been referring to or thinking of is the new physician coming out of residency, training, fellowship. Obviously existing practitioners have housing needs as well. And sometimes those are different, or more complicated. In my mind, I'm thinking of scenarios where you want to build a custom house, maybe do some big renovations. You and I live in Charlotte, and so there's pockets in our town, and many around the country, where people are tearing down and building new ones. Those scenarios aren't quite as cut and dry, are they?

Jason Watkins:              16:14                No, they're not. So good question. So the physician loan program is intended for purchasing existing construction, or newly built homes from a builder. The alternative would be building a custom home, or renovating a home. So the program is not intended to be used for a construction loan, or renovation loan. So, if you are... And to differentiate, if you're looking at a home builder, and they build homes and they're building in a community and you love their floor plan and you love the community, and it's a new construction house that'll be done in eight months, we can do that loan for you. You can buy that new construction house and use the doctor loan to do that. If you're going to buy a piece of land, design your own home, find a builder to build that house. Now you're talking about a true construction loan, and that is not a loan program that this, that the doctor loan would be a fit for.

Shane Tenny:                17:08                But it's still a lending scenario that you have experience with.

Jason Watkins:              17:11                Yeah, absolutely.

Shane Tenny:                17:13                For folks listening, that might be in that scenario, what are some of the ramifications, some of the things they need to be aware of when they dive into looking for a lender or calling you or whatever? What's different about that?

Jason Watkins:              17:23                So construction loans are a different... They're a different animal, if you will. And with every bank that offers them, what they allow for their program will be different. Again, that's one of those niche products that the bank has a lot of say in what they'll approve, and what those guidelines are. Typically, for a construction loan, you'll need anywhere from 10 to 20% down, depending on the cost of the home.

Shane Tenny:                17:47                Or equity.

Jason Watkins:              17:48                Or equity. If you have equity in a piece of land that you already own, you get credit for that equity against your down payment. Really, it's then a matter of working with your lender to find out what their program allows, as far as down payment, so that you know what to expect. Then it's a matter of finding a builder that can build what you want, and that the lender approves as well. So in a lot of cases, the lender has to approve the builder that you want to use. So definitely important if you're going to build a home, to talk with your lender first and find out what you're going to qualify for. And talk to them about what their builder requirements are, so that you don't go out and choose a builder that you love, only to find out that maybe the bank you've been talking to can't work with that builder for a particular reason.

Shane Tenny:                18:33                Give me an example of that. Why does the lender care who my builder is? What's that connection?

Jason Watkins:              18:38                So basically, they want to make sure that the builder has a good reference history, a good track record of paying their bills, experience building homes. So if you go out and find A and B Builders, who've been in business for six months and they haven't built any homes in the past three years in the Charlotte area, that's not a builder that you're likely going to get approved with your lender. But if you use a reputable builder, that can provide references that we can see has a primary focus of building maybe six to 12 homes a year in the Charlotte area, then that's a builder that we trust. So we're helping vet that builder for you, to keep you from being caught up with maybe somebody who might start construction, and then take one of the draws or disbursements of funds and not see them again.

Shane Tenny:                19:24                Advanced apologies to A and B Builders out there. So we'll have to issue a legal disclosure. And so now, I know from personal experience, and so I'm going to let you unpack it a little bit, what's the difference, because I believe there is one, between a construction loan and a renovation loan? Those are two different animals too, right?

Jason Watkins:              19:45                Yeah, they are. So a construction loan is, truly building a house from the ground up. Find a piece of land, put a house on it. A renovation loan is, find a house you love, and then do a significant remodel, which includes tearing the house down all the way to the foundation. So it could be as little as adding a garage to the side of the home, to adding a bedroom and bathroom off the rear of the house, to literally tear in the house down to the foundation and then rebuilding it back up. And their renovation loan, honestly, for any lender that offers a construction loan, it's going to be a construction renovation product. So the down payment requirements, the equity, those are all going to be calculated very similarly.

Shane Tenny:                20:27                But it's important. I think the message that I would want to communicate, and I think part of what you're saying is, for folks that are thinking, oh, we want to build, we want to renovate, something like that, just be aware of the fact that you don't necessarily need to be hunting for a doctor loan program. You're hunting for a competitive lender that can capably incompetently offer a product, and help you navigate a more complex buying scenario.

Jason Watkins:              20:52                Yeah. At the end of the day, you just need somebody that knows what they're talking about and is going to put you in the right product. Whether that right product is with me or not, I'm going to let you know that, "Hey, here's what you need." Maybe we offer it, maybe we don't. And if we don't, I'm going to help you find somebody that, that I trust and that I think you'll trust to be able to talk through what those options are going to be. Because the construction renovation loan, there's just more moving parts to it, so you need somebody who's experienced in doing that type of product. If that's the type of loan you're going to go for.

Shane Tenny:                21:22                Now, you've mentioned a couple things that we all know about that are important, and some of that we didn't know. Obviously, the lender cares about your income, they care about your assets. You mentioned, many folks don't realize they care about who your builder is, If you're going to have a builder. We all know they care about your credit too, and that can be an important factor, and it can be complicated for physicians and dentists. Most carry a bunch of debt with them when they come to see you for the first time. Some may have other debt from practice ownership, or other business interests, and so credit can either be really strong or it can be really complicated or it can be not strong. Can you talk a little bit about the role that credit plays, and then either some of the things that are surprising to people when they come, and then you have to say, "Hey, guess what? You actually don't have any credit. Or yours is a little low," and they say, "What?" What are some of the things that people need to watch out for there?

Jason Watkins:              22:22                That's a great question as well. So credit is significantly important in what we do, it's going to dictate what type of financing we can offer you. It's going to dictate whether we can even offer you the physician loan program. Your credit score will determine the amount of down payment you need, if any. What I see pretty often is folks believe they have... They'll come to me and they'll say, "Hey Jason, I just checked my credit on my credit card app, and it says I have an 800 credit score." So it's important to know that if you're getting credit anywhere other than from a mortgage lender, the credit score you see is not using the same credit model that most lenders use. So typically, what I'll see is, they're surprised to say that, "On my phone it says my credit scores 800, but Jason, you're telling me I have a 730 credit score."

Jason Watkins:              23:09                So, it's very important, regardless of where you are in the process, if you think you're going to buy or refinance a house anytime in the next year, it's never too early to get pre-approved. If you get a preapproval, I'll be able to take a look at your credit and see exactly where you are, and either tell you, "Hey, great job. Keep up what you're doing. Here's a few things to do or not do over the next few months," or if you come to me and your credit isn't where we need it to be for whatever you're trying to do, I can give you some guidance on how to get you on that path to where you need to be, to be able to get a mortgage.

Jason Watkins:              23:45                One easy fix that I see quite often is if I maybe look at someone's credit, the credit report might show a credit card balance that is maxed out, or a high usage relative to their credit, and they might say, "Well, Jason, I pay that off every month." Well, that's great. It would be better to pay that off before the end of your statement cycle. That way when the credit reads your credit balance, it's not reading that you're maxed out. It's reading that zero balance. That's the most common factor on a credit report that I see that impacts someone's credit score. It's the amount of credit they're using on credit cards, versus what amount of credit is available to them.

Shane Tenny:                24:24                Let me repeat that, because I think it's an important one. So even though, I think everybody knows paying off your credit card is more helpful than not paying it off. But what you're pointing out is one of the other, I think five criteria. There's I think five different categories, or criteria, in computing a credit score, and one is timeliness of payments, but the other is usage. And so to the example you're giving, somebody who has a credit card with a $10,000 balance, and if they're charging $9,500 a month on it, and paying off $9,500 they get good marks in the credit score calculation for paying it off.

Shane Tenny:                25:00                But they're getting the ding for using 95% of their available credit. Is that what... And so your solution is, Hey just pay it down or pay it off before it's actually due, before you get the statement showing its due. Or obviously, you could probably call the credit card company and say we have a nice history of payment. Could you just increase my limit to 20 grand or something like that. Higher available credit, and then a lower usage rate.

Jason Watkins:              25:25                Yeah, that's it. When your statement closes, and they report that balance to the creditor, you want that balance usage to be as low as you can. So paying that balance off, even maybe a day sooner than you otherwise would have, might be a big driving force in your credit score. And there are other things. Everybody's credit is different of course. And again, there's a lot that I see on credit. Way too much to, to fill in here, but a preapproval will get you on the right path. So if you're thinking about buying a house six months down the road, get pre-approved now, just to know that you are where you need to be. And if not, then you're going to have time to get where you need to be.

Shane Tenny:                26:01                Now what exactly is preapproval? Is that just so that you can give me a warm fuzzies saying, "Yeah, I can buy the house I want," or is there some other role that that plays in the process?

Jason Watkins:              26:08                So the ultimate outcome is we want to give you the warm and fuzzies that you can buy a house you want.

Shane Tenny:                26:12                There we go.

Jason Watkins:              26:13                But the way that we're going to do that... So when we do a preapproval for you, we're going to look at your credit report, and it's more than just saying, "Hey, what's your score?" Because other factors on your credit report matter, also. We want to know that you have credit. We want to know that all of your credit isn't only that you're an authorized user on someone else's account. So we want to see that credit history, that credit usage, in addition to the credit score. We're also going to look at the income you have now versus maybe what income we're going to qualify with. If married or, or applying for with someone else. We're going to take a look at their information as well.

Jason Watkins:              26:48                But especially, with the physician, doctor, dentist loan product, that's in my opinion, the most important product to get pre-approved on because there's so many nuances in there. We can discuss how you're going to be paid. Maybe, if you're getting a new position and part of your income is guaranteed, part of it is RVU based income. We're going to talk through those things up front so that we know exactly what you're going to get qualified for.

Jason Watkins:              27:16                And then student loans is a big one. When we're doing the preapproval, we're going to look at your student loans, and we don't necessarily care as much about balances. I get that question a lot. Someone will tell me, "There's no way I could buy a house, I owe $250,000 in student loan debt." From our perspective, that's okay. What we care about is what your repayment agreement is. So a lot of the times accounts might be deferred or in forbearance at the time of the preapproval, or they might already be in a repayment plan. And we're going to look at that repayment plan with you and figure out how flexible we can get on that. Typically, an income based repayment or a pay as you earn program, are the best payments to get into depending on your income. And if you're getting pre-approved in advanced, you're going to have time to talk through that and figure out which of those programs are going to be better for you.

Shane Tenny:                28:03                Yeah, and a great scenario, I can't avoid the softball you have teed up because it's a great scenario to work with your trusty financial planner, and your mortgage broker, to come up with a thoughtful, credible student loans strategy as part of the future home buying mortgage strategy.

Jason Watkins:              28:21                That was a good softball, wasn't it?

Shane Tenny:                28:22                Yeah, that's right. I never missed a chance to swing at those. So bottom line, how do people get started? I guess where maybe ending into preapproval, but what's the process look like to get started? And I'll throw you the softball. If somebody thinks to themselves, "Jason seems to know what he's talking about." There's probably a way they could track you down too, couldn't they?

Jason Watkins:              28:39                Yeah. So the best way is to give me a call, and that number is (704) 654-6058 and from there we'll talk on the phone and figure out what your scenario is. I might have you... We might meet and do an application that way for a preapproval. We have online resources to do the preapproval online. We can do it over the phone. So very flexible with time and how to get that information from you. And a preapproval takes typically about 24 hours. So it's a pretty quick turnaround. So if you're curious today as to what you can do from buying or refinancing in house, I can tell you about tomorrow.

Shane Tenny:                29:13                Now before we close out here, are there any good words that the legal department over at SunTrust Mortgage would like you to utter on air?

Jason Watkins:              29:19                There are. Thank you for asking. I should tell you that my NMLS number is 455600. I'm from SunTrust Mortgage, and we are an equal housing lender.

Shane Tenny:                29:28                That is super valuable. I've written that all down right here in my notes. And, Jason, thanks so much for being with us today. It's been a pleasure, and thanks for all you do to help the people that we serve.

Jason Watkins:              29:37                Thank you.

Will Koster:                   29:41                I'm Will Koster, bringing you this episode's White Coat Achievement. A segment where we highlight noteworthy achievements by your friends and colleagues. By now, you've probably heard about the new social media channel TikTok. This app is taking the internet by storm with over 26.5 million monthly active users in the United States. Mostly generation Z. Doctors have started to leverage this platform to educate teens. This White Coat Achievement goes to Dr. Danielle Jones, who is better known as Mama. Dr. Jones. Dr. Danielle Jones is an OB-GYN, and mom of four. She has thousands of followers across Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. Plus 184,000 and counting followers on TikTok. You might be wondering, why a doctor would be interested in engaging kids on this strange new app everyone's talking about. Her bio on TikTok says it all, TikTok's first gynecologist. Through her channel on TikTok, she provides "sex ed, your health class".

Will Koster:                   30:40                One of her TikTok videos got 9.8 million views in just 48 hours. This particular video shared facts about Plan B. Whether parents like it or not, their teenagers are searching the internet for information on topics like Plan B, and other sensitive subjects, and Dr. Mama Jones is there to address the misinformation that could negatively affect kids if they were to wrongly act on it. Now, more doctors are also starting to use TikTok, and Dr. Mama Jones is collaborating with her colleagues to both blow off steam and to educate teens. If you'd like to check out some of her content, we'll have links in the show notes.

Will Koster:                   31:14                As always, if you know someone who wears a white coat and is achieving something noteworthy, feel free to drop us in line. We might even feature them on a future episode. But again, this episode's White Coat Achievement goes to Dr. Mama Jones.

Shane Tenny:                31:28                All right. Thanks so much for being with us today for the conversation with Jason Watkins of SunTrust Mortgage. Hopefully this has been helpful to you, or folks that you know, if you've been thinking about, or planning, to buy a house, or refinance or anything like that. As always, we welcome your feedback. You can email me, shane@whitecoatwell.com. Please subscribe. Please give us a review on iTunes or Google play. If you want Jason's contact information, and didn't catch it, it's in the show notes below. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you back here next time.

Outro:  31:58    This episode of White Coat Wellness is over, but you're not alone on your journey towards financial wellness. Spaugh Dameron Tenny has been helping physicians and dentists with their financial planning for over 60 years, and we'd love to answer any questions that would be of help to you. Visit sdtplanning.com today, and take your financial wellness to new levels. Once again, that's sdtplanning.com. And we'll see you on the next episode of White Coat Wellness.