Podcast Episode 20 | The Impact of Physician Coaching

Errin Weisman:             00:00                It's going to get better. It's going to get better. That was my mantra all through residency. Then when I got out, it wasn't better, if not, a little bit worse at that point.

Intro:                            00:12                From Spaugh Dameron Tenny, it's the Prosperous Doc Podcast. Real stories, real inspiration, real growth, a show for doctors who are ready to improve their overall wellness in every aspect of life. Now here's your host, Shane Tenny.

Shane Tenny:                00:30                Welcome back. Good to have you with us on today's episode. I'm excited today because we're podcasting with a podcaster. In fact, our guest today was featured on our blog last year as one of the seven best physician podcast shows, at least in our humble opinion. I'm excited to be here with Dr. Errin Weisman, trained in family medicine. She's in Southwest Indiana, a farmer's wife, a mom of three. In addition to working clinically, also has become a coach to female physicians around the country following her own struggles with burnout. She also launched The Doctor Me First podcast, I referenced, which has over 20,000 downloads as far as I can tell, and really is built around having authentic conversations. We're going to talk with Dr. Errin in the first half about coaching and burnout issues and then in the second half of the show, I thought we might dive into marriage and money issues. Errin, thanks so much for being with us today.

Errin Weisman:             01:23                Absolutely. Thank you so much. That was a great introduction. It's one of those things like until you have it all laid out at your feet, you're just like, well, holy shit, that's quite a bit of stuff.

Shane Tenny:                01:33                There you go. Well, look at all the runway you've got behind you now. I want to start, maybe we'll dive into your story around your passion for coaching, which I think came from some pretty difficult days earlier in your training. Maybe you can start us off there.

Errin Weisman:             01:47                Absolutely. I always tell everybody 2014, worst year of my life to date, though it was supposed to be the best, it was when I got out of residency, right. I was launching into practice. I was done with the railroad tracks of medical education. What I found myself in instead of being at the top of the mountain and summited and celebrating and jumping around, I felt like I was at the very bottom of the pit and had no idea what I was going to do to get out and felt that I was living somebody else's life most days.

Shane Tenny:                02:22                What was going on that made it feel like such a thud?

Errin Weisman:             02:26                Well, I think it was started way back in med school, hindsight 2020, and definitely started having burnout back then and just kept my head down and kept pushing through. It's going to get better. It's going to get better. That was my mantra all through residency. Then when I got out, it wasn't better, if not, a little bit worse at that point. I just found myself in a position of, oh my God, did I just make the worst set of mistakes of my whole entire life? Did I literally go into quarter of a million dollars of debt to just turn tail and run? What in the world am I going to do?

Shane Tenny:                03:05                What did you do?

Errin Weisman:             03:09                Everything we tell our patients not to do. I got on the internet and started Googling, how do I change my CV to a resume? Because at that point I was out. I saw no other alternative than to just cut ties and leave at that point. I was the first doctor in my family. I knew other people were making money and being okay outside of healthcare. What I found was other doctors talking about the exact same thing at that point, some were my age, some were older, some were even younger. I was just like, what is going on? This was supposed to be such an honorable career choice. We went into this because we really wanted to help and heal people. Why are there so many of us that are literally self-sacrificing a piece of ourselves so that we can escape.

Errin Weisman:             03:57                It was from that that it led me to this coaching thing. I was like, whatever, take my money. If it'll help me, let's see what will happen. Because I was so afraid to seek mental health services, to be perfectly honest. I didn't want my medical license to get banged up. I didn't want to sit in front of the Indiana state medical board because I admitted that I was burned out or that I wasn't happy in my career choice. Because at that point in the thick of it, I really didn't know what was going on. I'm like, I don't think I'm depressed, but maybe I am. I don't think I have anxiety, but maybe I am. I don't think I'm going through a midlife crisis at like 30, but maybe I am. It was just all muddy at that point. Like I said, had got online. I had seen The Happy MD.

Errin Weisman:             04:43                I had seen a bunch of other physician coaches at that point and I thought, I don't know. If they can make this better, take my money. I ended up coaching with a woman called, her name is Philippa Keneally. She's out at California. She was a family medicine doc as well. I felt like I really resonated most with her and so I bought an online program before I even knew what an online program was. As I was working through it, I was like, I got to talk to this woman. Got on a call, which is a discovery call now that I know as a coach. Just in that one call, I could feel something shift inside of me where I went from hopeless to a glimmer of hope, where I went from utterly alone to where I felt like I had someone on my side with it all.

Shane Tenny:                05:34                How long did that relationship or your work with her, how long did that last to help you gain some footing and some traction?

Errin Weisman:             05:43                Well, honestly immediately. Even after that first short phone call, I felt like, okay, I'm not stuck, I can do something. Started working with her. It was like twice a month meetings that I was meeting with her and really started not just making those external shifts, like needing to change some things, being vocal, communicating well in my office setting, which were honestly things I hadn't learned in residency but started having a lot of internal shifts. Like, hey, you don't have to be super woman. You can delegate some of these things. Really those thought patterns that were keeping me trapped, like I've got to do everything. I've got to be super mom, super doctor, super community leader.

Errin Weisman:             06:26                Really starting to evaluate what I was thinking and was that actually what I wanted in my life? Was that actually still true? Because one perpetual thought for me is if I work harder, it will get better, so I just kept working harder and harder and harder and it wasn't getting better. Really evaluating that thought and being like, is this really serving me? Is this really what the truth is? What I came to find for that is I had a lot of screwed up thought patterns that if I would speak them out loud, most people would be like, yeah, that's pretty true. But I had taken them to the extreme. That was really nice to have a coach to really dig into those, to have her reflect them back and look at them perhaps in a different point of view. That's what really hooked me into coaching.

Shane Tenny:                07:13                You mentioned the word truth a minute ago. Is that part of the connection between the brand that you started around Truth Prescriptions? Talk a little bit about that.

Errin Weisman:             07:20                Absolutely. During those coaching sessions, I just told her, I feel like I need to do something. I need to speak my truth out in the world. I need to talk about this in some sort of way. She challenged me in some after coaching homework to come up with some kind of project. Literally what I did is I found an app on my phone and started making these social media squares, which I called, I was writing Truth Prescriptions. Really, a lot of them were the words that I needed for myself, but I put them out on the internet and then bam, right away, people were picking them up, resharing them. I realized like, oh, I have something here. That's where my branding started was making these little prescriptions of truth, putting them out there and then getting a website to where they can have a whole gallery of that.

Errin Weisman:             08:11                What transpired from that is the more I started doing it, I actually had people starting to contact me about, as I was talking about early provider burnout. I was like, whoa, I'm not an expert. I'm just a girl posting things because she's like in the middle of the pit and wants to help other people maybe. Through those conversations I realized I like this. We're all like the mom physician coaches, because we needed this stuff in med school. I needed this in med school and I didn't see anybody else doing it so I thought, all right, there's a space. That's where I jumped into coaching was because of just taking that one little step of action to try.

Shane Tenny:                08:52                Your coaching really just happened organically, almost unintentionally by just people reaching out to grasp ahold of some of the Truth Prescriptions that you were putting out there?

Errin Weisman:             09:04                100%. What really cemented it in is when I wrote my first article for KevinMD and it was entitled Burnout Almost Ruined My Life. It was kind of my coming out story. At that time, like I said, so it was like five, almost six years ago now when I distributed that. It was such a catalyst for other people to stand up and say, "Yeah, me too, but I haven't had the courage to speak this out loud. Thank you so much." It was amazing how that just magnetized what I was doing and made me realize that this wasn't just a crazy idea, and that I also wasn't alone in it. By me speaking up about it and by me proclaiming like, hey, I'm a burnout coach and I want to help you. It was helping other people deal with issues that they were having too.

Shane Tenny:                09:54                No. Is professional coaching and life coaching, do you feel like that's becoming more widespread among physicians or is there still a lot of stigma or stereotypes around it like what you wrestled with?

Errin Weisman:             10:11                I think absolutely it's catching on. I have seen a huge blossoming, especially in the last two years of other physicians becoming coaches. Because of that, because I'm seeing this surge of doctors saying like, oh my God, this is a great tool. We need to use this for each other. I actually started a second business called the Physician Coaching Alliance. What the alliance does is just putting a platform out there to anybody who's MD DO and also coaches to say, hey, we think this is a great tool. We think this is a way that we can help our colleagues and we want to band together as a community rather than competition with each other. Because we know if we collaborate, if we go into institutions, if we talk colleague to colleague, this is going to spread like wildfire rather than each of us being like a lone wolf in our little communities and doing this.

Errin Weisman:             11:01                It's been amazing over the last year about getting physician coaches together. We meet on a regular twice a month basis. We have a regular communication group that we use in Slack. It's just been another catalyzing force recognizing like, hey, there's a need and maybe I can help with this. That we've gone from a group of 10, now we're all the way up over 240.

Shane Tenny:                11:26                Wow. I think you've shared and I've heard from others that even as you pointed out, the fear about, oh, I'm going to go talk to somebody about feeling burnout or my anxiety or my depression and then I'm going to find myself in front of the medical board having to defend the fact that here's why I need help. We're already seeing state medical boards become more understanding of the burnout issue and the healthy remedies to address that, right?

Errin Weisman:             11:51                I think so. There's still lot of bylaw changes that need to take place on a state to state level. I'm sorry, but you don't need to know my mental health history from the last three decades. I think that there, for too long as physicians, we have let our own private information be displayed out on the altar of the licensing boards. There's still a lot of work to be done. I know there's a lot of state organizations, medical associations that are working with their states to get the verbiage and the wording different. Changing it from seeking all of that past history to looking at in this present moment, are you healthy and capable to take care of patients well? I think there are changes happening, however, it's very slow.

Errin Weisman:             12:36                The other thing too is there's not always a lot of vocal doctors like myself who want to get up and perhaps sacrifice ourselves and say, listen, why would we ask this of patients and yet we're not doing this for our providers? And giving examples, because right now physician suicide is the dirty little secret right now of healthcare. I look at it too, not just as loss of life, but look at how many career suicides we're going through right now, right? Medical student-wise, it's 50/50, male, female. We know when a woman leaves residency or fellowship training, within six years, we're only retaining about 40% of female physicians as a full-time level. If you actually break that down by the numbers, we go from 50% of the population and cut that back by another 50, 60%. Then that's why female physicians working full-time were only about 20 or 30% in the marketplace.

Errin Weisman:             13:37                I look at that as women are sacrificing their career because we're not meeting them where their needs are. We're not recognizing the invisible workload of women on top of being a high-level, high-functioning medical practitioner and yet we're saying, well, what's wrong with you? We're not giving an avenue for women to say, well, this is what's wrong with me and this is how I see we can help and change. Because there's so much fear in the system of coming out, admitting I need help, or just saying, hey, there's some injustices and inequality within our system that not everybody wants to be that whistleblower.

Shane Tenny:                14:15                As you coach women all around the country, what are some of the unique challenges or fears that you see present that don't exist within male physicians?

Errin Weisman:             14:27                Well, honestly I think that there's a lot of similarities between our female and male colleagues. It's just we express them differently. With women, we know as far as with burnout symptoms, we're more likely to express apathy and saying that this is really a problem for us because we're no longer feeling connected to our patients and we no longer feel that we're invested in our work, where men more commonly expressed exhaustion. Now women do too, but I'm just saying like top symptoms. I don't think it's so much gender difference when people come to me, but the questions that most come to me, or the words that I hear them saying is I feel so stuck. I feel overwhelmed. I'm extremely frustrated. I have no idea what to do. I don't know how I got here. I don't know how I'm getting out.

Errin Weisman:             15:23                Very fixed like quicksand type of feeling in that stuckness. My question to them always is, I guess my picture I paint for them first is like, well, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Today we're just going to take one good bite. Tell me what your greatest struggle is in this moment right now and really focusing them back in because we start getting in this thought tornado where like, oh my God, I hate my job. Oh my God, what am I going to do if I quit my job? Oh my God, my kids are going to be out on the street and we are not going to have any food and we're going to be homeless. We go to that in five seconds. It's really about centering back in and being in this moment, what is the greatest struggle right now? Really identifying that and then that's what you tackle.

Errin Weisman:             16:12                Then you take the next best step and the next bite and then you tackle that. Before too long, then you're like, oh, I've taken quite a few steps now. That's why I'm feeling a little bit better. I think it's really important to emphasize to our guests that are listening today that is really keying in is do you have hope that things can change? Because if I have a doctor that comes to me and even if I ask them, "Hey, are you having suicidal thoughts?" Because right now about 40% of us are. They say, "No, no, no, Weisman, that's not an issue right now." But if I ask them, "Do you have hope that things are going to change?" They're like, "I don't really know." That's a huge red flag that you my friend are at risk for harmful behavior or suicide. I just want to put that out to anybody is that if you feel a lack of hope at this point, please, please, please reach out and talk with someone because there's always, always going to be change. You are not stuck.

Shane Tenny:                17:11                Yeah, excellent. To that point, for any folks who are listening that are resonating with what you're saying, we're going to put the contact information for Dr. Errin's website and other resources in the show notes. At the end here, I'll have you give a shout out to how folks can get in contact with you. I want to take a quick break and then shift gears a little bit to your own story around marriage and money.

Will Koster:                   17:36                I'm Will Koster, bringing you this episode's financial wellness tip. In a previous episode, I discussed the idea of a savings snowball. The gist is that when you pay off a liability like a car, it is important to start saving that monthly payment before it gets washed down the spending stream and becomes part of your spending habits. I want to expand on this idea and propose that automatic savings are one of the biggest contributors to our client's longterm success. If you think about it, your 401k savings are set up this way, automatically deducted from your paycheck each month. You barely have to exert any discipline to save to your 401k. Savings as part of your monthly cashflow however, requires the discipline to stick to a budget and avoid the Keeping Up with the Joneses mentality.

Will Koster:                   18:25                Automatic savings can have a big psychological effect on how you view your finances. The automatic savings starts to feel like an expense that you build your budget around, somewhat like a mortgage. When you boil it down, a mortgage payment is actually a form of automatic savings. Our philosophy is that if you automate savings, your budget and lifestyle will naturally fall into place. The key takeaway, save first and make it automatic and mindless. For this episode's financial wellness tip, I'm Will Koster.

Shane Tenny:                18:58                All right, we're still here with Dr. Errin Weisman, and appreciate your candid conversation just around coaching and the stress that physicians and providers face every day. I know you're married. You've got three kids. You live on a farm in Southwest Indiana, and that just regular life isn't easy in and of itself. Your husband is an entrepreneur as well. Is that right?

Errin Weisman:             19:20                He is. Our backstory is when I was in medical training, he was actually an elementary school teacher, a basketball coach, and he farmed on his family's farm. It's a little bit over a thousand acres. Then when I launched out into practice, I was like, look, dude, you got to pick a career just like I've got to pick a career and like we need a stable parent. Again, I was grasping for straws because everything was crazy. We had two kids at that point. His dream was always to be the farm manager on the family farm. He taught because then that gave him like afternoons and evenings to work on the farm. It was just to the point that he loved coaching basketball. He's great at it, but that came hand in hand with the teaching position. We did it, we made the jump. I was in medical practice, even though it was a struggle, that was our stable job. He jumped into farming full-time and became an entrepreneur. That was 2015.

Shane Tenny:                20:18                What were the money dynamics like between you and Craig as you navigated through training and his career and his business dreams and your business dreams?

Errin Weisman:             20:27                Well, it's really funny. We both come from different money story backgrounds. Even though both grew up in the Midwest, pretty similar money beliefs like that, nothing shows you how differently you think from a person than being married to someone and sitting down with the checkbook. That was actually a huge struggle in our marriage early on. I was very much like everything has to balance. You need to put it in the checkbook. We need to budget every single week to know what's happening, very like control freaky about it. He was very much more of a free spirit like the ATM says we still got money, it's fine. It'll come in, no problems. It was a struggle that we really had to work through. What I realized it really wasn't him because so many times I wanted to be like, why can't you just do this? Why can't you give me your receipts so I can write them down?

Errin Weisman:             21:21                It was actually more about stuff that I needed to look out for me because like I said, I was very control freak about it. Why that was is because I had a lot of fear and scarcity around money. I grew up, I would say, lower middle class. I was always taught work hard so that you can make money. Always money had a lot of drama around it for me with paying bills and that sort of thing, just because of my family of origin, and so I brought that into our relationship unknowingly. After sitting down, and part of it too was just learning that trust. I'm a very alpha female like don't get in my way, I will figure things out. Marriage has definitely been a challenge for me as far as learning to trust my partner in life and know that I can rely on him. It really doesn't always have to be me. Also, recognizing that his point of view wasn't wrong, it was just different.

Errin Weisman:             22:20                With that, we came to a compromise. One, we learned how to use I statements. Anybody who's done any couples marriage therapy counseling, whatever, I statements is a great way to communicate with your spouse how you are feeling without placing blame on that other person. It's saying like, I feel stressed out when I go to sit down and do the checkbook and I see that the numbers aren't right. Notice I didn't say you in that. I didn't accuse him in any ways. Really focusing on when we communicate, he would then say, well, I feel stressed out when I come home and the bills are being done and there's accusations being thrown. Again, not using you statements but just really laying out how we feel, how that impacts you, and the outcome of it.

Errin Weisman:             23:15                I would encourage anybody, Google it, you can get worksheets, you can go to Pinterest, use I statements. It's a great tool to start communicating in a really stressful situation and really helping you identify how you feel and why you feel that way, the events triggering that. Then the other thing was weekly budget meetings. For us, sitting down not evidently having the Excel spreadsheet out but just being like, what are the bills coming up this week? What should we anticipate? Where are we at? Again, just communicating through that, not evidently crunching the numbers. Now we've even spaced that out a little bit further, but he has always been one that loves to write checks. I always wanted to do the electronic withdrawals, but we realized we had to do a combination of that. By sitting down and having those conversations weekly, writing out the checks and the bills, it's made us really come together and communicate over our money disputes.

Shane Tenny:                24:14                It sounds like while you come from different backgrounds, just using the I statements and then just having conversations about the reality of what's happening and then we can work together from there. Is that kind of what you've seen help you function in a more healthy way there?

Errin Weisman:             24:29                Yep. Facts over feelings is what I tell a lot of people. What are the actual facts? Knowing that that number is neutral, it's neither good nor bad, but just saying, these are the facts. Trying to separate just for a moment the feelings that are coming off of that. Then you can dissect those feelings and be like, why am I feeling anxious when the checkbook gets under a certain amount of money? Well, maybe it's because something in your life happened when say the checkbook dropped under a thousand dollars and you're afraid something bad is going to happen again. Maybe it's some sort of belief that was instilled in you as a young kid like you need to keep X amount of money in your savings account, because that actually a security.

Errin Weisman:             25:13                Even though it's false security because that could go at any moment, it still is a security blanket per se that that's why you're feeling that way. Again, separating facts over feelings to just look at it and be like, yep, we got to pay the mortgage this month. We got to pay the insurance. This is what it's looking like. Okay, now let's talk about how we're feeling about it.

Shane Tenny:                25:35                As your business and your passion around coaching and podcasting, as that's grown, you've made some shifts to your clinical schedule, which of course has a financial impact as well. Right? Talk a little bit about how you both, you and Craig came to that usual understanding and decision.

Errin Weisman:             25:55                Sure. Like I said, he transitioned to entrepreneurial world and then a few years later I did the same thing. I went from being an employed physician to being a 1099 contract physician. It felt like his was part one and mine was part two after that. Then my business developing more and becoming pretty much the breadwinner again, but in a different way. It's been really interesting that we just keep talking about the numbers. We keep having conversations. Late in 2018, the numbers got tight and the savings account zeroed out at that point. Things got really, really real. It was a really good, I say now good, good trying point because it really helped us prioritize, okay, what in our life is necessary and absolutely must haves? What are the things that have been frivolous but we felt like they were important?

Errin Weisman:             26:54                Then really keying in on, if I want to do this, if I want to do coaching, if you want to run the farm and do our own business, where do we need to dig in and push just a little bit more? Which is a little bit different when you're employed because it's just like you work your schedule, the paycheck comes every two weeks. Yeah, you complain about the lunch meetings and the early mornings and that sort of thing. But when you're out on your own running your own business, it's very interesting. It's a very different dynamic when the money does get tight and you really do have to look and say, okay, how and where can we flex? Because honestly at that point, worst case scenario, we're like, okay, we're going to have to start digging into retirement funds. What can we liquidate? We had a plan, but we didn't jump into crisis mode because we knew, okay, we can do some other things before we go there.

Errin Weisman:             27:47                I would say that it's definitely been a journey and it's made us stronger as a couple. Then also as a business owner, it's really helped me recognize what I call MGAs, money generating activities. Yeah, it's nice to have a beautiful website and social media presence, but what really are the things that put checks in the bank? And understanding that. For me, like I said, when the bank account hit zero, it was time for mommy to buckle up and get her butt back in the hospital and make some money. That's what I did for a little while, knowing that it wasn't going to be a forever thing but I definitely needed some money generating activities to keep our necessaries going. That was a nice thing to realize that it wasn't the end of the line. I wasn't going to have to give up on the business, just going to have to pivot a little bit.

Shane Tenny:                28:34                In your conversations in coaching with physicians around the country, do finances come up routinely or how often do finances surface as areas of struggle or stress?

Errin Weisman:             28:46                Absolutely almost every first conversation. I always I'm talking about doctors about the golden handcuffs. It's like we look at our jobs, we look at our careers... I specifically work with physicians through transition and burnout. They're coming to me and they're like, "Errin, I hate what I'm doing but I can't leave because of these nice little diamonds and a paycheck and everything that's so nice with them." Really getting their head wrapped around the finances and understanding is X amount of money, what you're making right now, does that equal the happiness that you're having right now? Because I don't think so. Also, looking at it too, because the complications of student loans. For so long we've lived in delayed gratification that when we get out and we do have the big paycheck, we tend to spend it.

Errin Weisman:             29:40                Understanding those ramifications and then also I look at them and say, what's more important, the paycheck that you have or the future potential happiness, sustainability enjoying your life? They're like, well, yeah. Especially when I'm talking to moms is like, do you want your kids to grow up with a stressed out, frustrated, burned out mom? Or do you want them to say, yeah, mom was super happy, she was a doctor too and she did things differently. Most of the time, just finding why you want to change that. But it is, it is a struggle because we make good money to realize that a change is probably going to change that salary. Not always. I would say a good majority of the time is I help physicians transition to life and work that they love. They actually make more money because they're in the middle of their flow.

Errin Weisman:             30:28                They find a job that really is more aligned with their values and with the schedule that they want to keep. It's so much easier to work and to put that fulfillment in there. I wouldn't say it's always a step down and it's definitely never a step down, but there can come some waves where it definitely changes things. Like I remind physicians all the time, you can do hard things. Look at your past, you've already done so many hard things. What if you buckle up for six months knowing that the seas are going to get a little rough? Then after that you'll have some more smooth sailing. I would say 100% of the time we're talking about money because money is not just the number in the bank. There's so much more wrapped around it.

Shane Tenny:                31:12                Yeah. Dr. Errin Weisman, as we wrap up here, let me throw you one last question which is, you talk with, you coach, you empathize with your colleagues, docs all around the country. This year, 2020 is shaping up to be a really stressful one. There's a lot going on. There's healthcare crisis. There's financial crisis. Do you have some parting words that you might share with your colleagues who are listening today?

Errin Weisman:             31:39                I would say reminding yourself and centering yourself that in this moment you are okay and keep going back to that. Even when it feels like everything around you is a whirlwind in a cluster, just reminding yourself and centering yourself in what are the tangibles right now. If they are not okay, reaching out, asking for help. It is never ever a sign of weakness to consult another physician when you need help in a patient case. It should never be a sign of weakness when you need to ask for help for another professional in your life. Be it a financial professional, be it an emotional professional like what I do. I think it's just knowing that the only things that we really truly can control are ourselves and what's going on between our ears, and just reminding ourselves that we do have control of that.

Errin Weisman:             32:34                The other stuff that we don't have control of, asking for help, making those small steps and shifts where you can, and then staying connected. I think it's so important to have your tribe and your community around you supporting you.

Shane Tenny:                32:50                Yep. If folks would like to have you in their tribe or community and reach out for help, go ahead and give a shout out. How do they track you down?

Errin Weisman:             32:55                Well, you're obviously a podcast listener so come on over to Doctor Me First, hang out with me. Get some sassy, encouraging conversations that I have with other female physicians that hopefully will bring some encouragement and inspiration into your life. We talk about all topics, nothing is off the table. I try to give you a little kick of encouragement at the end of each one so come on over to Doctor Me First and hang out. If you like Instagram or LinkedIn, I would love to connect with you on there as well. I think Instagram is a great place to post all those pictures. I think LinkedIn is the happening professional community space to, even if you're not looking for a job, it's just really fun to be around other professionals who are forward thinking and really want to elevate our colleagues.

Errin Weisman:             33:38                Come hang out with me there. If you are a physician and a coach, I would encourage you to go check out the Physician Coaching Alliance, just physiciancoachingalliance.com. You can see all of us hanging out there. The great things that we are doing in the healthcare space to promote coaching in a way that is not woo-woo but evidence-based and truly helping others.

Shane Tenny:                33:59                Awesome. Well, Errin, thanks so much for dropping a little Weisman wisdom on us today. I appreciate you being here. Thanks to you for listening, for giving us part of your day. Thanks for your support, and encourage you to check out Doctor Me First podcast. If you've got ideas, suggestions, questions for future episodes, you can email me directly, shane@whitecoatwell.com. You can track us down on all social media lines as well. Thanks so much for being with us. We'll see you back here next time.

Outro:                          34:27                This episode of the Prosperous Doc Podcast is over, but you're not alone on your journey. Spaugh Dameron Tenny has been helping physicians and dentists prosper through financial planning for over 60 years. To connect with us, visit sdtplanning.com today and take your financial wellness to new levels. Join us on the next episode of the Prosperous Doc Podcast.